seeking sources on the MN's use of colonial personnel

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MarkCJones
Messages : 17
Inscription : 22 déc. 2013, 18:43

seeking sources on the MN's use of colonial personnel

Message par MarkCJones »

I apologize for not being able to write in the French language.

I am aware of several instances of the Marine Nationale making use of personnel from its colonial territories. I have found published sources that the MN enlisted Africans in Senegal between the 1860s to 1880s as crew members on river gunboats; that the FNFL included men from Polynesia and Vietnam; and that the MN enlisted hundreds of Vietnamese men in the 1950s before abolishing its Vietnamese branch upon France's withdrawal from the country.

Can anyone provide other examples of colonial subjects serving in the MN between the mid 1800s and the mid 1900s? If possible, please point me toward reliable sources, preferably published items such as books or scholarly articles.

Thank you in advance for any assistance!

Mark C. Jones
Paloupalou
Messages : 63
Inscription : 16 nov. 2020, 11:45
Localisation : Eure

Re: seeking sources on the MN's use of colonial personnel

Message par Paloupalou »

Hello! That is for sure a tricky question.

Concerning the sources, you have :
"Historique de la Marine Française - Novembre 1942 - Août 1945" by Amiral Henri DARRIEUS and Capitaine de Vaisseau Jean QUEGUINER.
It is said in a table page 324 that there were on May 8th, 1945 :
At sea : 790 "indigènes" and 21600 "europeans"
Aéronautique : 750 "indigènes" and 3020 "europeans"
Navy soldiers (with Leclerc in the 2nd armoured division for example) : 30 "indigènes" and 5260 "europeans"
In the seaports, bases, schools : 6130 "indigènes" and 19997 "europeans". Work close to the Seabees" but with far less building than the Seabees did...
Being instructed : 100 "indigènes" and 7000 "europeans"
Note that these figures are only sailors (europeans and indigènes), they do not contain the petty officers or officers, who were only europeans...

"Les bases et les arsenaux français d'outre-mer du second empire à nos jours" has chapters concerning the employment of indigenes in the navy yards.

There must be some autobiographic books of sailors in which there are indigenes mentioned. In Indochina during 1939-1945, a lot of indigenes were employed. Indigenes can oftenly be seen in the photos of the French navy between 1939 and 1960.
MarkCJones
Messages : 17
Inscription : 22 déc. 2013, 18:43

Re: seeking sources on the MN's use of colonial personnel

Message par MarkCJones »

Hello Paloupalou,

Thank you very much for providing this information! I had no idea that there were so many sailors from France's colonies serving in the MN. It is also helpful to know that these sailors were all enlisted men and not petty officers or officers. Perhaps other visitors to this forum can mention additional books or articles that provide data on people from the colonies serving in the MN in various locations and time periods.

Thanks again,

Mark C. Jones
MarkCJones
Messages : 17
Inscription : 22 déc. 2013, 18:43

Re: seeking sources on the MN's use of colonial personnel

Message par MarkCJones »

I have learned more about the Marine Nationale's use of personnel from its overseas territories. From reading messages posted to various web forums, including one titled "Lebanon 1942" on Net-Marine.net in 2008, it seems that the French national government issued decrees starting in the late 1800s that authorized the establishment of a corps of indigenous sailors in separate territories.

1886 - Senegal
1892 - Cochinchina
1895 - Annam and Tonkin
1903 - Algeria and Tunisia
1919 - Senegal (reorganized)
1923 - Madagascar
1924 - Indochina (merger of Cochinchina, Annam, Tonkin)
1926 - Algeria
1926 - Tunisia
1942 - Morocco

The indigenous sailors from Algeria and Tunisia were known as baharia, a word derived from the Arabic word for navy.

The French government has a photo collection on-line (imagesdefense.gouv.fr) that has multiple photos of Algerian sailors in February and May 1940.

I am still seeking an authoritative, preferably published source that describes the MN's use of indigenous personnel. Can anyone point me toward such a source whether that be a book, book chapter, scholarly article, or government document? The terms that most commonly appear in the sources I find are: marins indigenes and baharia, though I have also seen tirailleurs de la mer and laptots.

Thank you for any assistance possible!

Mark Jones
SL
Messages : 1924
Inscription : 21 janv. 2007, 16:50

Re: seeking sources on the MN's use of colonial personnel

Message par SL »

Bonsoir,
Quelques références relatives aux corps des marins indigènes pour la période 1879-1911.
Signification des sigles employés :
B.O.R : bulletin officiel de la Marine, édition refondue.
B.O. : bulletin officiel de la Marine (édition chronologique).
B.L. : bulletin des lois.

C : circulaire.
D : décret.
A : arrêté.
D.M. : décision ministérielle.
D.P. : décision présidentielle.
L : loi.
Image (6).jpg
Cordialement SL
Vous ne pouvez pas consulter les pièces jointes insérées à ce message.
MarkCJones
Messages : 17
Inscription : 22 déc. 2013, 18:43

Re: seeking sources on the MN's use of colonial personnel

Message par MarkCJones »

Hello SL,

Thank you very much for finding this page! It offers clear evidence of the MN's use of indigenous personnel. So that I might cite the source properly, can you photograph the first several pages of the book from which this table is taken? The first several pages will give me the title, year published, author (presumably the French government), and the publisher. You could post the images to this forum or send them to me as a private message.

I will hope that other readers of this forum can find further evidence, hopefully describing why and how the MN employed indigenous personnel.

Thanks again!

Mark C. Jones
MarkCJones
Messages : 17
Inscription : 22 déc. 2013, 18:43

Re: seeking sources on the MN's use of colonial personnel

Message par MarkCJones »

Hello Marne,

Thank you very much for posting links to the official bulletin of French laws! This is a most helpful step as it shows the official government policy regarding the indigenous sailors. The last of the links shows the MN's continued use of indigenous personnel as late as 1932, though a variety of secondary sources confirm indigenous sailors were part of the MN during World War II and the immediate post-war period.

Thank you once again for this assistance!

Mark C. Jones
MarkCJones
Messages : 17
Inscription : 22 déc. 2013, 18:43

Re: seeking sources on the MN's use of colonial personnel

Message par MarkCJones »

I have learned of two scholarly articles about marins indigenes that could be of interest to someone reading this message thread:

Estival, Bernard. Les vietnamiens de la Marine Nationale (1951-1956). Revue Historique des Armees, issue 211 (1998): 61-68.

Thompson, J. Malcolm. When the fires are lit: the French Navy’s recruitment and training of Senegalese mechanics and stokers. Canadian Journal of African Studies 26, number 2 (1992): 274-303.

Mark C. Jones
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